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 Post subject: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice [SPOILERS]
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:49 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:10 am 
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Suddenly more interested in this.


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 Post subject: Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:04 pm 
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As I already wrote, while I approve of the tone, I am concerned about the potential mess of plot and characters. Still, I like the trailer and I think both Batman and Superman look great.


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 Post subject: Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:21 pm 
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Location: Takin' the touchstone tour
I'd still like to know who thought grimdark was the right direction to go for Superman of all characters.

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Last edited by Jaerom Darkwind on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:03 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:26 am 
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Jaerom Darkwind wrote:
I'd still like to know who thought grimdark was the right direction to go for Superman of all characters.

What other direction would they go? Honestly, I'm not sure I'd be all that interested in two hours of feel good dramady. I mean I guess another straight action movie would be fine, but Supes already caused trillions of dollars of damage.


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 Post subject: Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:34 am 
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People seem to strangely forget that Supes is a really friken sad character. Honestly, the only thing that makes him better than Batman (imo) is that he hasn't been parodied to the point of oblivion of being overly whiny over Krypton (along with his entire people) getting nuked.


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 Post subject: Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:05 pm 
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Lazarous wrote:
People seem to strangely forget that Supes is a really friken sad character. Honestly, the only thing that makes him better than Batman (imo) is that he hasn't been parodied to the point of oblivion of being overly whiny over Krypton (along with his entire people) getting nuked.

Not sure I buy this. Unlike Batman, who was old enough to understand what happened to his parents (he's usually between eight and 12 years old) and is often consumed with guilt and rage, Superman is almost always portrayed as an infant, sometimes a newborn, when Krypton is destroyed. Consequently, while I believe the character is sad about what happened, it's more... theoretical to him than it is personal. Superman was raised by loving parents in an environment that just screams "traditional" (read: idealized) Americana. There's little sad about the character in that respect.

What they're doing in these Man of Steel flicks is turning that expectation on its head. While I would argue that Kingdom Come (by Mark Waid and Alex Ross) offers a similar treatment, MoS (and apparently DoJ) seem to want to grapple with the concept of what makes a hero and the impact such struggles have not only over "normal" people, but over the character of Superman himself. There's a lot of sacrifice, angst, and reluctance in MoS's Superman. He's reluctant to take on the mantle because, like his adoptive father, he's not sure people can handle it. This causes him to experience some of the worst humanity has to offer (the bullying he endures throughout the film is really something to consider... Only once does he really lift a finger). Like KC's Superman, MoS is very much concerned about being a hero because he's not convinced that people really have an idea of what a hero is. In short, the MoS treatment of Hero is far more ambivalent than what we've been seeing in the Marvel Studios movies where that sort of struggle is much more muted, assuming it exists at all.

As for my preference, while I'm all for a more... conflicted stance regarding the Hero and like the idea of a Superman who is at the heart of that conflict, I think letting him go too dark not only diminishes him if not done properly, it also diminishes Batman's status in that regard. The additional possibility that Batman
Spoiler:
may actually be deputized in this version of the character
further diminishes the character IMO. I'm all for grimdark. I like grimdark, but only when it's appropriate for the characters(s). I'm not yet sure if they've gone too far with Superman in this film (won't know until next year I guess), but I am concerned.


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 Post subject: Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 5:28 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:25 am 
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Like I wrote on FB, I love the trailer but I still think this movie's going to be a cluster.


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