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 Post subject: Ovate (Bard Archetype) [PF]
PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:42 pm
Posts: 105
OVATE (BARD ARCHETYPE)
Ovates are druids tutored in the ways of the fey. They see the harmony and strife of nature like a song with ever-varying combinations of harmony and dissonance, a song they are skilled at riffing off of.

Class Skills: An ovate adds Handle Animal, Ride, Survival, and Swim to her list of class skills.

Bonus Languages: An ovate's bonus language options include Sylvan, the language of woodland creatures. This choice is in addition to the bonus languages available to the character because of his race.

An ovate also knows Druidic, a secret language known only to druids and ovates, which he learns upon becoming a 1st-level ovate. Druidic is a free language for an ovate; that is, he knows it in addition to his regular allotment of languages and it doesn't take up a language slot. Ovates are forbidden to teach this language to anyone who is not a druid or ovate. Druidic has its own alphabet.

Spellcasting: An ovate can cast spells from the druid spell list of 8th level or lower as well as spells from the bard spell list. She treats druid spells as belonging to the following ovate spell levels:
Code:
   Druid          Ovate
Spell Level   Spell Level
0                  0
1st               1st
2nd               2nd
3rd               3rd
4th               3rd
5th               4th
6th               5th
7th               5th
8th               6th
9th               –


Wild Empathy (Ex): An ovate can use wild empathy as a druid of his level. This ability replaces bardic knowledge.

Woodland Stride (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, an ovate may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at his normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. Thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion, however, still affect him. This ability replaces versatile performance and well-versed.

Trackless Step (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, an ovate leaves no trail in natural surroundings and cannot be tracked. He may choose to leave a trail if so desired.

Resist Nature's Lure (Ex): Starting at 4th level, an ovate gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against the spell-like and supernatural abilities of fey. This bonus also applies to spells and effects that utilize or target plants, such as entangle, spike growth, and warp wood.

Wild Shape: Starting at 4th level, an ovate can use wild shape as a druid of her ovate level. This ability replaces lore master and jack-of-all-trades.

At 6th level, an ovate gains the ability to become a Small or Medium vermin. This option replaces the option to become a Small elemental.

At 8th level, an ovate gains the ability to become a Small or Medium magical beast or Tiny or Large vermin. This option replaces the option to become a Medium elemental.

At 10th level, the ovate gains the ability to become a Tiny or Large magical beast. This option replaces the option to become a Large or Huge elemental.


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 Post subject: Re: Ovate (Bard Archetype) [PF]
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:24 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:51 am
Posts: 1247
I feel like this is too much druid. And despite its name, I see nothing reminiscent of an egg.


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 Post subject: Re: Ovate (Bard Archetype) [PF]
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 4496
I agree. This is mostly a multiclass druid/bard. I'd like to see some more unique abilities, even if they do get some druidic spells or powers.


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 Post subject: Re: Ovate (Bard Archetype) [PF]
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:00 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:51 am
Posts: 1247
Also the fluff of the archetype is a) kind of lame and b) points far more strongly towards this being a druid archetype that adds some bardic performance stuff rather than being a bard archetype. Frankly I think the standard bard is already great for all fey-related activities. If I could shoe-horn a good Fortitude save onto it somehow it would be perfection.


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 Post subject: Re: Ovate (Bard Archetype) [PF]
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:42 pm
Posts: 105
To expand the fluff a bit, an ovate is supposed to embrace the emotional aspects of wildness and nature. I want to make something that evokes old stories about how the druids were poets, judges, and philosophers while also keeping their strong ties to the magic of nature. A more nuanced hybrid spell list might help in addition to unique class abilities.

Musing over this again, I had this idea for a new ability:

[replacing woodland stride and trackless step in the previous draft] Rhythm of the Seasons (Su) An ovate can affect plants and vermin with mind-affecting effects as if they were not immune; a creature whose immunity is bypassed this way gains a +4 bonus on its saving throw against the effect. In addition, the ovate can influence plants and vermin with wild empathy like magical beasts and can influence even mindless creatures of appropriate creature types with wild empathy as if those creatures had Intelligence 1. This ability replaces versatile performance and well-versed.


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 Post subject: Re: Ovate (Bard Archetype) [PF]
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:51 am
Posts: 1247
Funny how it takes a thinking rational being largely removed from nature to see nature and think it has an emotional aspect. Especially considering it's mostly bugs and slime and plants.

I'd like to see this as a Druid/Bard hybrid class, with a much cooler name.


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 Post subject: Re: Ovate (Bard Archetype) [PF]
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:22 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:42 pm
Posts: 105
A hybrid class is indeed a good idea. I suppose I didn't think of it because when I first proposed the archetype the ACG wasn't even out yet.

KingCrazyGenius wrote:
Funny how it takes a thinking rational being largely removed from nature to see nature and think it has an emotional aspect. Especially considering it's mostly bugs and slime and plants.

Heh, true enough about slime and plants. But of course this class should primarily focus on (and be most effective in dealing with) aspects of nature that are already emotional (i.e. smarter animals and fey).


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 Post subject: Re: Ovate (Bard Archetype) [PF]
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:51 am
Posts: 1247
Actually I take it back. A hybrid might be interesting, but for what you are going for I honestly think a druid archetype with bardiness is more the way to go.

Something less horrible than...

OVATE (DRUID ARCHETYPE)
Ovates are druids tutored in the ways of the fey. They see the harmony and strife of nature like a song with ever-varying combinations of harmony and dissonance, a song in which they are well versed.

Class Skills: An ovate adds Diplomacy, Bluff, Knowledge (history), and Perform (all) to her list of class skills.

Bardic Spellcasting: An ovate can prepare any and all bard spells as though they were druid spells. If the spell exists on both lists, the ovate uses the druid spell level if different than the bard spell level. These spells are cast as divine spells and do not incur arcane spell failure. This replaces the Nature Bond and Nature Sense extraordinary abilities.

Versatile Performance At 2nd level, an ovate can choose one type of Perform skill. She can use her bonus in that skill in place of her bonus in associated skills. When substituting in this way, the ovate uses her total Perform skill bonus, including class skill bonus, in place of its associated skill's bonus, whether or not she has ranks in that skill or if it is a class skill. At 10th level, and again at 18th level, the ovate can select an additional type of Perform to substitute.

The types of Perform and their associated skills are: Act (Bluff, Disguise), Comedy (Bluff, Intimidate), Dance (Acrobatics, Fly), Keyboard Instruments (Diplomacy, Intimidate), Oratory (Diplomacy, Sense Motive), Percussion (Handle Animal, Intimidate), Sing (Bluff, Sense Motive), String (Bluff, Diplomacy), and Wind (Diplomacy, Handle Animal).

This replaces Woodland Stride and Trackless Step extraordinary abilities.

Bardic Performance At 4th level, the ovate gains the bardic performance ability as a bard of her level -3, gaining each performance as appropriate. At 10th level, an ovate can start a bardic performance as a move action instead of a standard action. At 16th level, an ovate can start a bardic performance as a swift action.

This replaces Venom Immunity, A Thousand Faces, and Timeless Body.


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 Post subject: Re: Ovate (Bard Archetype) [PF]
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:28 pm
Posts: 1181
There's some issues with providing access to a 6-level list in the slots of a 9-level caster. For example, the druid would get 6th level bard spells - some of which are 8th and 9th level spells - starting at 11th level; bards don't get them till 16th.

A half bard probably shouldn't be that much better at bardic magic than a real bard.


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 Post subject: Re: Ovate (Bard Archetype) [PF]
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:51 am
Posts: 1247
Coriat wrote:
There's some issues with providing access to a 6-level list in the slots of a 9-level caster. For example, the druid would get 6th level bard spells - some of which are 8th and 9th level spells - starting at 11th level; bards don't get them till 16th.

A half bard probably shouldn't be that much better at bardic magic than a real bard.

I already covered that: any spells that are on both lists have the druid spell level. As for overwhelming presence anyone who walks around not immune to mind-affecting effects deserves to prostrate themselves.

YES I SUPPOSE the RATIONAL solution would be to make a list of which bard spells they get, but I really don't care enough to dig through that whole stupid list. Spellcasting PCs is everything that is wrong in high fantasy.


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