Dicefreaks

Where Flavor Meets Mechanics
It is currently Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:41 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]



Welcome
Welcome to dicefreaks

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. In addition, registered members also see less advertisements. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join our community today!


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Asmodeus 5E
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:17 pm
Posts: 31
Hi everyone! Take a peek at my 5E conversion of Asmodeus, on the DM's Guild! It's a bit of my own flavor mixed with hints of old Dicefreaks canon, plus stats for the Overlord, the Ruby Rod, and two new cleric subclasses: Fire and Tyranny, all for free! So dig in and let me know what you think!

_________________
Et Earello Endorenna utulien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn’ Ambar-metta!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Asmodeus 5E
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:18 pm 
Offline
VIP Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:41 pm
Posts: 740
I was kind of expecting a handsome man with small horns and a goatee, or maybe a red guy with big horns and dumb hair... what made you decide to depict him as a withered, yellow hunchback?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Asmodeus 5E
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:03 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:17 pm
Posts: 31
Hi Phaedros! It's because the debonair, "scarlet pimpernel" devil motif always threw me a bit. I understand the idea folks are going for with that, it just seems a bit showy. I think that no matter how you slice it, the "King of the Nine Hells" is a ruse:

• In D&D canon, the ruse is essentially that the King of the Nine Hells is no worse off for his loss against the heavens, i.e. he's content to rule in Hell rather than serve in Heaven, etc.

• In DF canon (IIRC), the ruse includes drawing as much attention as possible to Asmodeus' flashy style and away from the real goings-on in the deepest pits of Nessus.

For my take on Asmodeus, the ruse is a bit different and essentially tries to incorporate the two ideas: 1) that the devil's true form is a snake (ala DF canon), and 2) that the devil's appearance is something of a punishment from God for what he did, ala Paradise Lost (even though God evidently wanted him to, but the subject of omniscience in PL is another topic entirely).

With the Overlord being a serpent from the get-go, it doesn't make sense for his punishment to be stuck in the form of a serpent, or the form of a guy with a waxed goatee and a crushed velvet suit (because, personal style preferences aside, how is that a punishment?). Here, the notion is that the Overlord uses the image of Asmodeus to sort of appease his defeaters, to make them think they've broken him, to show them a heartless King of a broken people while he coils in secret in the pits, plotting his second titanomachy.

_________________
Et Earello Endorenna utulien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn’ Ambar-metta!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Asmodeus 5E
PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:27 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:45 pm
Posts: 4428
Hey Joe, bought a few of your things last night, started checking them out.

First thing, Asmodeus doesn't feel like he's more dangerous than Demogorgon. The high Charisma saves are obviously an issue, but it seems like 20th level characters will have a way around the effects of being frightened or charmed, and once they are past that, Asmodeus is a fairly low damage dealing, easy to hit, beat down. Using any of his special abilities (Father, Nullify, Summon, etc) gives up his ability to damage his foes. Rank Devils especially seems like something that should be in the non-action or even ecology portion of his statblock.

Second thing, holy crap the Overlord. Naturally, the CR standard is 'a party of this level of characters, at full power, fighting one of these, should beat it without losing a party member'. That puts a hell of a spin on what a hypothetical 35th level party would look like. It also seems like a 20th level PC could have a higher AC than the Overlord. Which is almost entirely irrelevant, since the bite likely kills the first creature that it hits, and the four tails finish off the rest of the party. Again though, the economy of actions prevents some of the cooler things like Shift Mass or even boring utility things like Nullify Magic from being used. At least Overlord has these in there as legendary actions. Shift Mass doesn't seem particularly clear on how he's blocking movement, since I could just attack the 'wall' his body creates. Unless I can't, and that should be a bit more obvious.

A few things that stood out to me. Fire domain clerics learn Ignan, but Asmodeus doesn't know it. Nor does he have telepathy, a staple of devils. The Tyranny domain deals frcee damage, which I suspect was force. I loved the lair actions, they were possibly my favorite part, it just evoked an adventure in Hell so clearly. And the Ruby Rod looks good, although I confess I hate writing up artifacts in this edition. It feels like a lot.

Good job on making this hobby pay, Joe. Asmodeus was the first one I read, off to check out the rest.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Asmodeus 5E
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:17 pm
Posts: 31
Hiya Will.

First off - thank you, pal! I really appreciate the support! Now, down to the constructive critique!

I've never seen Asmo as much of a fighter. Rex is designed to charm-lock parties. I've done that at lower levels and it is devastating; giving that power to Asmo only seemed natural. In particular, I thought the idea of adding character-bending flaws to his enemies probably dissuades all but the most certain assaults. No one wants to pick up any of those.

Also, I think the DCs and how quickly Asmodeus can charm an entire swathe of PCs keeps his CR from feeling inflated. Rex basically blinds the party every round unless they want to chance the DC 23 Charisma save, which effectively ups Asmo's AC to 24 due to disadvantage. They don't gain immunity to this effect like they do against dragon fear, so the PCs get hammered by Rex every round. If they chance it and didn't roll at least an 18 total on their save, the team has to burn action economy to remove curse or that PC is gone for the fight - Asmo just pockets them.

I do agree that Rank could have been listed as a Lair Action very easily, so maybe that's something to think about for a v.2 - I'm glad you like the ones he has, tho! Stacking the sickly halo and Father is a nasty bit of business. Asmo should have Ignan, so I know I'm going back to the statblock at some point... Typo on Tyranny, noted. :) And yeah, artifacts are a bit of a slog. There are a lot of parts to chip through and you have to try to make it really stand out in a small burst of text. Mjolnir was fun to write, though. :)

Now, the Overlord. Yeah, he's supposed to be basically unbeatable. That's all based on the premises set forward in "Beyond CR 30", where I sort of blackbox the math on a CR 35 then backfill the rest of the CRs 31-34. I explain the tiers in the PDF, but in a nutshell there's enough in the books to make me think there's a tier of monsters beyond CR 30 that capture anything we'd classify as a "greater deity", or something on par with one.

Basically, a CR 35 has enough HP and does enough damage to be functionally invincible to anything you can build with the core rules, and probably a good deal beyond that (allowing for the sorts of power stretches that you see in games that are innocent of min/maxing but still not strictly by the book). Even if the DM lets you max out HP and get a full set of top-shelf +3 armor and weapons, the Overlord is basically guaranteed to 1-round the party. Stacking all the HP feats and gear won't matter, you won't last more than a round or two. No sort of +3 weapon will make the difference, the Overlord has 6600+ hit points. Almost beyond doubt, the Overlord is invincible to anything short of gods or PCs with a ton of boons. I still haven't done the math on how many, but it's probably a lot.

Anyway, only a collection of other lesser deities (CR 26-30) and/or greater deities (CR 31-35) can overpower a CR 35. Re-Horakhty could be overpowered by other deities in his tier, or even a boatload of deities from the tier below his (CR 26-30; i.e. beings like Demogorgon), but unless the PCs are immune to fire and radiant damage, he's probably going to clean up. If a PC party managed to beat Osiris (CR 34), I'd be surprised (but intrigued).

I'm psyched that you're checking stuff out, Will. I'll try to have Asmo updated soon - thanks for the red pen! Next up is the last official Pantheon, covering some of the Norse gods (Valkyries, Hel, Surtur, Thor, and Wotan). Then I'm thinking of tackling the Lords of the Nine, so that should tie in nicely with an Asmo update. Looking forward to any thoughts you have on other stuff!

_________________
Et Earello Endorenna utulien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn’ Ambar-metta!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Asmodeus 5E
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:42 pm
Posts: 105
Congrats on putting material out there, Fëanor! It's awesome to see another Dicefreak writing RPG material for the market.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 6 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

suspicion-preferred