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 Post subject: Re: Developing the Horn
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 9:56 pm 
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Yeah, you go cast touch spells on the hungry Con draining wraith. I'll be over there.


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 Post subject: Re: Developing the Horn
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 10:01 pm 
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All you have to do is feed him now and then. You can even get intel out of it!


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 Post subject: Re: Developing the Horn
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 11:30 pm 
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Aluroon wrote:
We're going to need more prison rooms.


Kain Darkwind wrote:
We definitely need more prison rooms.


I dedicated one more prison room, 2-14 seemed well placed, but with just a wooden door it's not the most secure. I will note that Stone Shape makes for excellent on-demand prisons. Sealing a doorway with a stone grate shaped to join with the walls, shaping up a sealed stone coffin with air holes, just flat sinking someone's feet in the floor... endless versatility.

I'm going to leave mechanical traps such as the stuff you're suggesting mostly in your hands, I think, and concentrate on the magical ones myself. We should also decide whether to pony up to fix the broken pit trap on level 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Developing the Horn
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 4:53 am 
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Ok, having had a chance to go over the Horn in more detail (with reals maps!) I have some things to offer.

First and foremost I am strongly considering trying to open up the pillar that has the staircase between 1-27, 2-20, and 3-13. Logistically, a conventional means of transport between the floors is very useful, especially with slaves and minions potentially living and working on different floors. The thrones and 3-9 provide one alternative means to the daemons (the dimension door of which is likely to be sorely pressed, especially with one watching the Sanctum), but it has potential limitations with moving prisoners and so forth. While this does expose the stairway in 3-13 to a greater extent (and thus the Sanctum), I suspect that having an easier means of moving around is worth it, especially since we have many work rooms on floor 1. It would also allow us to avoid revealing the teleport of the thrones to minions immediately. Forcing them to go out and around the tower up huge flights of difficult terrain stairs just seems wasteful. I'd welcome other thoughts on the matter. I know Coriat liked the idea of being able to retreat behind a whole new set of defenses, but if we pull of DD retreats I am not as worried about buffing and healing between fights.

There is an alternative idea, regarding the pit trap, that I'll touch on below, so not completely sold on the pillar. In fact, in some ways I like the pit idea better - but I get ahead of myself.

Laying that aside to discussion, some generalizations that will frame my suggestions to follow.

Quote:
1st Floor
This floor contains many working rooms, including the torture chamber, library, classroom, blacksmith, kitchens, and alchemy lab.

2nd Floor
This floor contains living quarters.

3rd Floor
This floor contains... little of interest beyond the stairs to the Sanctum, and for some reason the cells (located very far from the torture room or our own chambers).


With those in mind, I'll start with the easy stuff.

3rd Floor
I am completely ok with abandoning the 3rd floor entirely to undead, wraiths, and traps. The prison cells are nice, but easily replaceable in a more convent location (especially on the largely empty 1st floor). If we go ahead with my suggestion regarding opening the staircase, I would remove the door between 3-12 and 3-13, while adding a door into 3-6 from 3-13 (let them think they found a back door into the shrine up here). I would knock out the wall between 3-3 and 3-13, providing an alternative means of entering 3-13 (teleporter to the floor).

3-1 Entrance way. I'm not sold on the pit trap, since I fear dropping enemies that are unharmed and fully buffed into the center of our level 2 defenses is perhaps unwise. On the other hand, it is a means of mitigating the wraith's minion gathering, so maybe. I think this room is largely his hunting ground.
3-2 Unspoken for, but part of the path I'd like to make into 3-13, so needs to be accessible to party.
3-3 I want to break down part of the wall into 3-13 to create a means of getting to the Sanctum if the daemons are banished (teleporter to 3-9, then to 3-1, then 3-2, secret door into 3-13).
3-4 Unspoken for. No doubt others can come up with stuff. Off hand I'm thinking poisoned traps, poison on door knobs, that sort of stuff. Really no one but us or invaders should ever be up here, so there isn't any reason to make it into anything but a giant death trap. There is need for this room.
3-5 Ezra's stomping grounds / Primary temple, maybe with additional uncontrolled undead support. Ideally I'd like to mislead minions and others into thinking the ritual takes place here, so any spies feed that information out.
3-6 I want to break down the wall between 3-12, then trap the bejesus out of this room. Make invaders that somehow get up the stairwell this far think that they are headed into the back door to the ritual chamber (3-5). Ezra's stomping grounds.
3-7 I like the idea of filling this with something horrible and nasty, like an army of uncontrolled undead. Enemies open the door and get swarmed, or at least burn resources. No reason we should ever open this door if we don't use the cells in 3-10, so we can go nuts.
3-8 As 3-7.
3-9 Kept largely clear. Maybe loyal undead minions, or some traps we can avoid. This is part of the non-daemon path to the Sanctum, so shouldn't go too crazy.
3-10 I like the idea of illusioning or otherwise faking prisoners in these cells that beg for help, then having something horrible jump on those that try to free them. Not certain what party resources are available. On the other hand, we could always make it into our oubliette, where we store prisoners we don't care about anymore.
3-11 Unused and sealed off. Not sure what to do with it and open to suggestions.
3-12 I want to open up the wall into 3-6 and also seal the door into 3-13. Ideally seal by making it appear as though there is no door (stone shape / craft) and baring the door. The general idea is anyone that happens to come up this way should be funneled into the shrine at 3-5. Ezra's stomping grounds. Anything that comes up this way is kill on sight.

2nd Floor
This floor, I suspect, will become largely living quarters for minions both named and unnamed. The one really crazy idea I had here was turning 2-21 (the mural room) into a long cell block. It's 20ft. wide, so you can easily install a ton of large cells going down it. Turn 2-19 into a guard room for said cells. I'm not sold on the idea (Lucavi might object to destroying the murals), and logistically it isn't great (since food is prepared on floor 1), but it's a ton of unused space.

For more certain ideas...

2-1 Fix the pit trap on 2-1, or at least seal the pit. Best case scenario would be seal it up in a way that lets minions in 2-3 or 2-2 unseal it once enemies pass, so fleeing foes fall and are trapped). I also like the idea of rigging up a portcullis that can be dropped once enemies are inside. Alternatively, if we shoot down the stairs from 3-12 / 2-20 /1-27, we could put a staircase here can empties into the steel cage and could be covered by the pit trap when attackers arrive. Bar or brick up the secret door between 2-1 and 2-2. If we can keep it accessible that's great, but enemies that are able to kick it in become a problem. I'd like to install a door at the T shaped intersection (that leads towards 2-16), because I suspect that 2-16 is our killing field on this floor.
2-2 and 2-3 are logical guard rooms for largely undead minions as a baseline, but also probably a human guard or two. Undead here can be freely armed with poisoned ranged weapons. I actually like the idea of ordering them to shoot anyone that tries to retreat back through it, rather than those that come through the front door at first. In any case, entrances to both rooms (in fact, every room on this floor we make use of) should be capable of being barred from the inside. In keeping with Puella's love of simpler things, iron bars to bar most doors are likely appropriate. It's a low tech solution that hugely funnels enemies or delays them greatly as they try to beat down DC 30 doors. Only rooms that minions do not belong in (e.g. bedrooms, maybe specialty stuff) should have locks, and more to keep minions out than enemies. Can't pick door bars.
2-4 Is not spoekn foor, but I don't like it as a room for housing. Maybe a storage room, maybe a room with minions waiting to ambush. Not sure. Either way it is a bit too in the line of fire for attackers.
2-5 Not sold on the pit trap above, but this could be rigged up as a prison for minions that Lucavi is having particular fun with. Again though, sort of in the line of fire as with 2-4. Not sure about this.
2-6 Grumble's room.
2-7 Teeg's Room
2-8 Gaerlans room (but see 2-11/12)
2-9 Lucavi's Room
2-10 Puella's Room
2-11 not useful now, since 2-12 leads into ooze land and an opening in the Horn. If we can lure the oozes out (say to lower caverns, or potentially 2-5 if that is too far) then I'd like to take 2-11 as Gaerlan's Bedroom, stone shape to fix 2-12, and make 2-12 into Myrtle / Grace's room. If we can't lure the oozes out / seal, then this becomes a death trap room likely full of powerful undead and poison.
2-12 See above.
2-13 Minion Housing for 12 minions
2-14 I don't like 2-14 as a prison, but as a harem for Lucavi with enemies that have broken minds already it seems both workable and interesting. Using stone shape to make that happen may not be an option (since I suspect for a time Gaerlan will be here and there), but adding more secure doors shouldn't be difficult, and fleeing into 2-16 is... ill advised. Irulen in particular (if / when she shows up) could arcane lock that door so that only members of the Knot could open it, in addition to an excellent lock and even a door bar from the outside it would make the room extremely secure.
2-15 Minion Housing for 12 minions
2-16 Killing ground in combat times, and minion hang out otherwise. Maybe some benches and stuff. Also source of fresh water.
2-17, 2-18, and 2-19 could be renovated as living quarters for more exalted minions (higher level / cohort type / those that please us / female minions separate from male). Maybe especially good for some named minions (like Melrov, Irena, the Motts perhaps, or Schmidt.). It may also be worthwhile to leave the Shrine up as a defense against wraith betrayal or to keep Mitra loving minions in line, though I'm not sold on the idea.
2-20 is unspoken for, and may make for an excellent storage room / armory
2-21 Other than the crazy prison wing idea above, I'm not sure what to do with this area, nor am I convinced we need do anything. It is off the beaten path and relatively isolated. We could simply fill it with bunks if needed for minions to camp out.

1st Floor
Right now this floor as a lot of open real estate, and is largely open to whatever. In the long term I suspect we will need to add more minion housing here (even if only for unnamed), but the largest addition I'd like to make here is a large cell wing in the south eastern area near the torture chamber. Going in order though, here are some suggested actions / defenses.

1-1 Bar the door to 1-19 or seal completely with stone shape. This is again about funneling opposition where we ant them. Poking around that direction is not it. I also like the idea of rigging up a portcullis that can be dropped once enemies are inside from either 1-2 or 1-3.
1-2 Bared door into 1-17, undead guards, poisoned ranged weapons, the works as before.
1-3 Bared door into 1-5 if needed (don't think so) more undead with ranged poisoned weapons.
1-4 Strongly thinking that filling up on supplies from Farholde is wise. Make up a story about a long expedition into the forest or just make the Baron cover for it, but stuck up in case we end up under siege. No reason not to use a preservation room for food.
1-5 Unspoken for. Maybe eventually minion housing or a shrine for Puella?
1-6 Unspoken for. Maybe eventually minion housing or Puella's summoning room
1-7 Unspoken for. Perhaps a trap room? Since this room is likely to be the first that invaders can get into (along with 1-15) its a good location to set up something nasty.
1-9 / 1-10 - turn this into a kitchen / fraternization room for minions. Even we have to eat, and this is a logical location to work with.
1-11 Unspoken for. Again, potentially long term housing for minions, or Puella's summoning room? 1-6 might work better for that.
1-12 Puella's Classroom
1-13 Puella's Library
1-14 Unspoken for.
1-15 Unspoken for. Perhaps a trap room? Since this room is likely to be the first that invaders can get into (along with 1-7) its a good location to set up something nasty.
1-16 Courtyard / Killing field. I want to put a door between 1-16 and 1-27.
1-17 Previously an armory, but I don't like the location. Again, perhaps a room that can be nastily trapped. Pits, crossbows, poisons, and so forth. Not sure.
1-18 Alchemy Lab for Teeg.
1-19 As before, brick this up with 1-1. Doing so makes the only way into this entire wing through 1-29, deep in the level. That makes this potentially an excellent room to turn into additional prison cells (if we can open up a door from 1-22 into 1-23).
1-20 As above, this room is very isolated, and it potentially makes a great prison room.
1-21 Largely empty and open room. Prison / storage is my preference for something deep in the fortress.
1-22 Smithy, but if possible I'd like to move the smithy to 1-28. Not only is 1-28 more accessable, doing so lets us turn this entire wing (19-22) into a giant prison area, with distinct rooms.
1-23 room with the pit trap above. Also serves as a make shift prison. I'm content to keep it that way. Alternatively, as a crazy idea, if we don't want to open the stairs hidden in 2-20/1-27 we could maybe install stairs from 2-1 to here. During times of 'peace' you could open the 'pit' trap and reveal a stairway between the 1st and 2nd level. Potentially dangerous if enemies investigate, but if they think it is a pit trap they may not bother. If they do we keep the cell part intact, so this room can still be locked.
1-24 No strong feelings. Guard room if we go with the prison idea, and likely with a pretty strong guard (and a gong). Maybe a good spot for the Flayer to hang out in for most attacks, since he's pretty tough and with some minions could hold it down. It also isolates his position here on the 1st floor in keeping with our "keep him in the dark" plan, though I'd like to keep someone else with him in that case.
1-25 Torture room. Works fine for me!
1-26 Prison for 14 prisoners currently. Is fine, though needs to be expanded as noted.
1-27 Wide open space. This can be used for something, though I'm uncertain of what. I do want to put a door between 1-27 and 1-16.
1-28 As noted, I would love to make this into the smithy.
1-29 No strong feelings. Maybe storage?

The Sanctum
Right now the plan is to put one daemon here. The golem might also be a great defender, because he doesn't have to leave, doesn't need food or rest, and so forth. I'd like to keep the very existence of this room secret for the most part. Let minions think we are going to mystery floor 3 for the ritual (if we can convince the torturer of this as well that works well, though I need to see what we have revealed in logs to him already). I like the idea of putting up lots of wards here, and am open to other defenses (keeping in mind that we need to be able to enter this room multiple times a day). Definitely want to brick / stone shape / whatever is needed to seal the balcony off from fliers.

The most sensitive room in the Horn, the only one that if breached potentially causes us to fail. I'd love other ideas for additional fortification on this.

The Lower Caverns
Ooooo boy. These are kind of a mess. Basically, this is where I'd like to put any monsters and such we find. Obviously this is the sort of thing that becomes more developed the more we know about what we can bring in. For now, my primary interest would be moving in the oozes from above if possible (not sure it is). If we can get enough boggards to come in with the 16 we have now some of the defenses take care of themselves. I won't go through the full break down, but a few thoughts.

I want to seal up room 5, at least from the narrow passage and maybe from both sides. It closes up to potential monster dens but also slows down progress into the Horn itself. We don't need boggards coming and going through the back door (in fact, I'd rather they didn't know about it at all in hindsight), and having a way for enemies to get deep into the fortress that quickly is bothersome. I can think of no compelling reason not to blanket 5 with traps then seal it up.

I think the best use for most of the acid right now is giving it to minions, including and especially the boggards. Heavy armored shield users have been common in this campaign, and giving them a touch attack makes them scary in the right numbers, while also leaving them pretty feeble against us (since Lucavi ignores the acid basically). Other than that, if 5 is sealed up, then they only have to hold 15 and 4, which is more manageable then the current circumstance which has at least 3 hard points they need to hold to defend themselves.

I'd like to know if the fish have poison we could use. Glabrezubane? Can you make the knowledge checks on them?

I also had an idea about trying to extend the difficult terrain further into area 1, to make it harder for enemies to get out. The idea being if the Boggards come under attack and gong it up, we can dimension door to 1 and either wait or advance as needed, forcing retreating beings to get through us AND difficult terrain to escape.

Beyond that, if you seal up 5 this whole area becomes nothing but a headache for adventurers, which is fine by me. Load it with traps and monsters. If we get enough boggards I'd like to have them set on a patrol to warn us of approaching enemies a bit further out, but that's not necessary.



I'm working on a crude map with labels for stuff, but I'm going to hold off before finishing / posting it to get feedback on some of this and some of the suggestions. Including some from Wardragon about ability to do things (like move the forge, open walls, etc). When I get some feedback I'll be happy to put together room costs for some of the expansion here.

I do have a few specific questions here though.
Wardragon - How many minions from our organization can we have available here to help us out as general purpose minions / guards, etc. I suspect we could easily find uses for a dozen (just as intelligent servants / cooks / ect).
Coriat - how many undead exactly do we have to play with?
Everyone - Are there general objections to trying to move most / all of our minions here? Are there objections to taking perhaps an extra week or two to finish renovating (1 month total) and getting the Horn to our satisfaction? An couple weeks is just that much longer for Lucavi's breeding program, Puella's crafting, and so forth.

What do we know about the surrounding area? Probably worth going out and doing a bit of scouting to find out about points of interest - or at least harrassing the Wugs about it.

Relatively quick responses will allow me to get everything on our end in order before the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Developing the Horn
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 7:24 pm 
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Coriat wrote:
Coriat - how many undead exactly do we have to play with?
Everyone - Are there general objections to trying to move most / all of our minions here? Are there objections to taking perhaps an extra week or two to finish renovating (1 month total) and getting the Horn to our satisfaction? An couple weeks is just that much longer for Lucavi's breeding program, Puella's crafting, and so forth.


Puella currently controls 21 skeletal warriors (which are pretty fragile, and due for replacement with bloody skeletons as they die) and one bloody skeleton girallon (which is pretty tough). She has 2 girallon corpses, 105 miscellaneous humanoid corpses, and one fey elven corpse in stock for replacements. If we want to fill up some areas with uncontrolled undead, I'll probably release all the current warriors for that, work up two more girallons, and create one bloody skeletal warhorse and five new bloody skeletal archers.

That would leave us a bit light on archers, but perhaps Irulen can pick up some slack.

I think we should move all the named minions except the Motts, Paula and Melrov's kid whatshername over to the Horn. I'd rather just get cracking on the ritual after two weeks, for the general sake of OOC progress, and I suspect we will have plenty of time to fine-tune the Horn as we are going.


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 Post subject: Re: Developing the Horn
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 9:43 pm 
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I'm currently updating the Maptool map with tokens in various locations, placing wards, and - trying something new - information tokens for where we've changed rooms and stuff.

Working on the following general defensive approach:

-the party plus Hexor has general responsibility for defending the second floor, and when other areas are under attack but the second floor is not, Hexor and Vexor will teleport them to the trouble spot. A few minions up here to guard the door and take pot shots against attackers climbing the long, difficult terrain staircase.
-Ezra, undead, and traps have general responsibility for defending the third floor.
-The bulk of minions have general responsibility for defending the first floor. Grumblejack is in charge of defenses here if the party is busy fighting on another floor.
-The wugs have general responsibility for defending the caverns. Zikomo is in charge in the party's absence.
-Vexor has general responsibility for defending the Sanctum, and also for monitoring the Eyes and alerting the party when the Eye shows intrusions or divine spellcasting.

I generally agree with most of Roon's proposed ideas, and where relevant I have placed minions accordingly (ie Halthus). However, I've refrained from marking up the map with new doors and such for now, since that is waiting on DM feedback and for some things, discussion. Exception is blocking the door into 1-19, since I believe that is fairly straightforward and we should have enough rubble, broken statues, etc. to block up at least one passage.

Will send when finished.


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 Post subject: Re: Developing the Horn
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2015 12:35 am 
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Quote:
Peter Stewart: 1. Can we bring in a few organization members as intelligent help? Just Warrior 1s or whatever that have the knowledge to say "Call the bosses" that skellys can't
Peter Stewart: 2. Can we knock out a couple of walls / brick up a couple of walls.
Peter Stewart: 3. Can we use the downtime rooms costs for outfitting various roms, and what portion of the cost, if any, is defrayed by mending and other existing resources


Peter Stewart: Oh, and
Peter Stewart: 4. Can we move the forge to room 1-28


1. Yes. They will be either Warrior 1 or Expert 1 (with potential upgrade to Fighter or Rogue for any who distinguish themselves).
2. Yes. A week's worth of minion labor will suffice for all such remodeling.
3. That works. Using mending and salvaging raw materials from the wreckage will suffice to pay for half of the Goods. Using a minion action will take care of the Labor.
4. Yes, but it will take a week of minion labor to keep from having it damaged.

For the record, I'm not interested in pinning down exactly how many minions you have from Leadership. Assume you can get together a gang of humans or boggards for a quick specific task, or have a few standing around on guard duty.


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 Post subject: Re: Developing the Horn
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:57 pm 
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There's a bunch of money still available for the Horn. Do any of you want to work on any traps besides the glyphs and snake sigils?

Coriat wrote:
Aluroon wrote:
Coriat - how many undead exactly do we have to play with?


Puella currently controls 21 skeletal warriors (which are pretty fragile, and due for replacement with bloody skeletons as they die) and one bloody skeleton girallon (which is pretty tough). She has 2 girallon corpses, 105 miscellaneous humanoid corpses, and one fey elven corpse in stock for replacements. If we want to fill up some areas with uncontrolled undead, I'll probably release all the current warriors for that, work up two more girallons, and create one bloody skeletal warhorse and five new bloody skeletal archers.

That would leave us a bit light on archers, but perhaps Irulen can pick up some slack.


This will be happening before next game, leading to a revised total of three bloody skeleton girallons, four bloody skeleton archers, one bloody skeleton warhorse, and 18 uncontrolled ordinary skeletonal warriors that Puella will stash on the third floor.


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