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 Post subject: The Gates of Hell and Mythic Adventures
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:06 am 
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Or more precisely - Hellspawns and Nessian Pit Fiends. And also Arch devils and Dukes of hell (A mythic tier prerequisite? or maybe not all of them are mythic? I assume all lords of the 9 possess 10 mythic tiers).
So, do they have mythic tiers? Something? Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gates of Hell and Mythic Adventures
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:47 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:51 am
Posts: 1247
The Gates of Hell Mythic, Pathfinder, and a significant chunk of 3.5 Edition. A hypothetical full scale upgrade of the project could theoretically include Mythic, but that would be up to the people who did it.

In a setting where Mythic replaces standard 3.0 divinity, giving the Lords of the Nine mid to high Mythic tiers would be sensible. I personally wouldn't give them all a 10, though. Perhaps just Asmodeus (but even then a 9 just feels so much better numerologically.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gates of Hell and Mythic Adventures
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:49 pm 
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Currently built demon princes and empyreal lords do not utilize either the mythic tier (for characters) or mythic rank (for monsters) system. Instead, they function as 10th rank mythic entities within their realm, and are generally powerful (CR 26+) regardless.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gates of Hell and Mythic Adventures
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:22 pm 
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So... Meaning Dicefreaks would not create an official epic level system? Like, level 20 + 10 mythic tiers is the max? Feels like a really small space after getting accostumed to the 50 level cap...


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 Post subject: Re: The Gates of Hell and Mythic Adventures
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:31 pm 
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No, my answer refers only to how Paizo themselves have built their cosmics. I do not know off hand how DF would incorporate the system.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gates of Hell and Mythic Adventures
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 5:46 pm 
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O haha... Thought you are refering to DF built (I knew it was wierd DF resumed working on TGoH, LfoH and HotA etc.)


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 Post subject: Re: The Gates of Hell and Mythic Adventures
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 6:34 pm 
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For what it's worth, if I were to ever redesign Gates and similar projects to use mythic, the new divine rules, and my revisions to epic, I would do it as follows:

Lords of the Nine receive divine rank within their realms. Outside of their realms / Hell are treated as Divine Rank 0 mythic creatures (not characters) - likely with 10 tiers and some unique powers.

Archdevils are treated as Divine Rank 0 creatures with 10 mythic tiers in Hell - and likely as simple tier 10 mythic creatures without.

Dukes would likely be Proxies with mixed tiers - again, not built as PCs.

Finally, I'd likely build high end fiends like Hellspawns and Nessian Pit Fiends with mythic tiers (again, not as PCs) as mythic monsters.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gates of Hell and Mythic Adventures
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:49 pm 
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Alright, so the game already has stats for Dukes of Hell, both the super pit fiend kind and the nascent demon lord analogue kind. Neither of these are innately mythic.

Demon lords are treated as mythic 10 within their realms, but retain high (CR 26+) powers even when out.

Based on that, I would say that Paizo's demon lords are DF's demon princes, and nascent demon lords are DF's demon lords.

However, Paizo has the following breakdown.

Balor lord/Nascent demon lord: CR 21-25
Demon lord: CR 26-30

I would propose an extension of either 5 or 10 levels, as follows.

Balor lord: CR 21-25 OR CR 21-30 (Atrocity)
Nascent: CR 26-30 OR CR 26-35 (Demon lord)
Demon lord: CR 31-35 OR CR 31-40 (Demon prince)

Below is what I would pose as a starting point for a DF cosmology with Paizo rule set.

Nessian pit fiend/Pit lord: advanced giant pit fiend with max hp. (CR 22)
Ashmadai: mythic pit fiends (CR 25/MR 10)
Aesmadeva: ashmadai fighter 20 (CR 35/MR 10)

If you wanted a bit bigger CR numbers, make the Pit Lords the mythic pit fiends, and make the Ashmadai advanced giant versions of them. That gives them and Aesmadeva +2 CR.

The Dark Eight become advanced pit fiends with 8-10 class levels in this system.

The Lords of the Nine would be built similarly to the demon princes, possessing MR 10 within their realms, and have great power even outside. Non-Lord archdevils would simply lack this realm, and tend to be slightly weaker than the Lords.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gates of Hell and Mythic Adventures
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:12 pm 
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I'd need to read whatever book Mythic is in so I know what these terms actually mean, but this seems pretty acceptable. By advanced giant pit fiend do you mean applying the advanced and the giant templates?

On the topic of pit fiends, I really think their Wis scores should drop down to 26, and their good saves switched to Fort and Will. Also think their HD should drop back to 18 for numerological reasons. Would probably drop their CR to 18-19 but I'm okay with that.


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 Post subject: Re: The Gates of Hell and Mythic Adventures
PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:23 pm 
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I think the pit fiends are fine as is, though their Wisdom is a little intense, I agree. And I do mean applying the advanced and giant templates to create a Nessian pit fiend.

Mythic is in the PRD now, so you can check out rules for yourself.


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